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Monday, August 07, 2006 

Lebanon body count

925 dead.

Reuters Faked Photos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ5Rj4yBGdU


arabs....

one thousand

Israel is covering up it,s loses to prevent riots in the streets against the gov and to prevent the Arab from the winning feeling and demands they deserve ,Israel economy and it,s people in much worse shape than the Arabs know .

norman ,

You had better worry about your poor country...

We have the best economy in the Middle East, do not worry to the Jewish brain, and try to find Arab brain instead.

We have democracy in Israel, and there are people in Israel that do not like the war, its call democracy (search in the dictionary)…

nir,I Think it does not work on your kind of brain.

We have the best economy in the Middle East
BASED ON THE THEFT OF LAND AND THE WORLD'S BIGGEST AID BUDGET (FROM THE US) - AND WHERE ARE YOUR BIGGEST PRODUCTION CENTRES...ON OCCUPIED LAND (THE WEST BANK)...AND WHERE DOES ONE THIRD OF YOUR WATER COME FROM? SYRIA!!! (THE OCCUPIED GOLAN HEIGHTS). GREAT ECONOMY.

We have democracy in Israel
FOR ONE RELIGION, YES. ISRAEL IS A THEOCRACY. I'D RATHER LIVE UNDER THE TALIBAN THAN UNDER THE THUMB OF THE JEWFACISTS.

and there are people in Israel that do not like the war
YES, THEY ARE CALLED ARABS

Anonymous,

"WHERE ARE YOUR BIGGEST PRODUCTION CENTRES...ON OCCUPIED LAND"

Stop crying, you lost in the war, now suffer.

"FOR ONE RELIGION" –
no , the Druze have same rights, Christian have the same rights, with the Arabs its just cant work..

We do not like people that live in our country and try to destroy the country.
In Israel, they called Arabs.

"And there are people in Israel that do not like the war
YES, THEY ARE CALLED ARABS"

No, Arabs likes wars only if it with Israel.

It is funny to hear comments about democracy from Arabs, look in the mirror from time to time …

Nir, you are twisting facts again. In his first reaction here, Norman talked about Israel. Your answer? It talks about the "Jewish brain"! Who mentioned the Jewish brain? Israel is made up of Jews AND non-Jews as you know. As usual, you are inconsistent.

Israel a democracy? Here are three examples why this not true:

- Example 1: Administrative detention which, in addition to the highly informative description that the Israeli B'Tselem gives ( http://www.btselem.org/English/Administrative%5FDetention/ ) applies also inside Israel proper, i.e. to Israeli citizens. It is usually applied only for Israeli Arabs.

- Example 2: Media. Israel has never enshrined in law the right to freedom of speech and under an emergency regulation inherited from the British mandate - the Press Ordinance of 1933 - the government can close newspapers at will and without reason. This measure has been used a few times against dissident Arab Israeli media without evidence. In fact, the problem runs deeper into the mission of Israeli Broadcasting bodies. Take a look, for instance, at the Second Television and Radio Authorities role ( http://www.rashut2.org.il/english_role.asp ). It should "promote Hebrew and Israeli creations" but only "provide broadcasts in Arabic for the benefit of the Arab speaking population." No promotion for Israeli Arab creation apparently (we are talking about 20% of the population here). Also, it has a doctrinal mission: "Providing expression to Jewish heritage, its values, and to the values of Zionism." Pushing the values of Zionism, an ideology, down people's throat's is not the most democratic thing to do.

- Example 3: Education. Israel separates the education of Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs until university entry, on the grounds that the two peoples have different languages and cultures and that they mostly live in separate geographical areas. However, this also justifies separate allocation of resources. Because of higher Arab birth rates, almost a quarter of the total school population are Arab pupils , but their schools receive just seven per cent of the Education Ministry's budget. Add to that the much lower budget allocated to Arab municipalities, which also contribute to the school budget. You may want to look up this interesting report by Human Rights Watch about discrimination in Israeli schools : http://hrw.org/update/2001/12.html#4

I could give more examples about Israel's non-democracy, but I'm not trying to be comprehensive. At the end of the day, what I think is that both structurally and in practice, Israel is not a democratic State.

Having said this, let's suppose for the sake of argument that Israel is a democracy - only for the sake of argument. How would that give it the right to breach International Law? How would that allow it to continue attacking a society (Palestine with its free elections and multipartism) and a country (Lebanon with its elected government) which have made significant steps towards democracy? How would that allow Israel to keep occupying land and not recognising the basic rights of the Palestinians?

You wouldn't know the answers because you are too busy arguing about the "Jewish brain."

(As for Israeli economy, so what? I wonder how it would survive without the 3 billion dollars it receives from the US every year and without the daily theft of land and water from the Palestinians. Read B'Tselem's site again about that subject. Very informative for your "brain".)

GottfriedStutz, what country is the perfect democracy for you?

Israel built by Jews and non-Jews? Are you mad?

Do you know history or you just spread hallucinatory versions?

No country is a perfect democracy, but Israel is not a democracy. It is a country embedding discrimination in its own laws and practice as I demonstrated in my previous post. It is not what it pretends to be or what you claimed before when you said "We have democracy". You have some democratic practices (vote, parties...) but you do not have democracy.

Where did I say that Israel was built by Jews and non-Jews? You are unable to concentrate on an argument, so you keep diverting the discussion. Now that you said it, though, yes, I will claim that Israel was built by Jews and non-Jews. In three different ways in fact:

- First, Israel inherited a land which already had some level of farming, had cities built by Palestinians, and had infrastructure created by Palestinians and by the British mandate, both non-Jewish to my knowledge. Israel thus was built on something created by non-Jews.

- Second, many Palestinian workers contributed to building and farming in Israel. They were either hired from outside Israel or Israeli Palestinians. In both cases... non-Jews.

- Third, Israel could not have been built without US taxpayers' money. most US taxpayers and most politicians who decided to give Israel more aid than to any other country in the world are non-Jews.

Demonstration done!

Now, back to democracy, you are still avoiding to say how, if we suppose for the sake of argument that Israel is a democracy, that would allow Israel to keep occupying land from three neighbouring countries and breaching International Law and the basic rights of the Palestinians.

No need to insult me personally talking about "hallucinatory versions". Obviously, I know this part of history more than you do. Aren't we all learning history every day?

GottfriedStutz ,



1 questions :

From where are you (don’t worry I am not going to find you)?

Now,

Please complete the sentence:

"I want Israel to be a democracy like ___________"

(name of a country)

GottfriedStutz ,



1 questions :

From where are you (don’t worry I am not going to find you)?

Now,

Please complete the sentence:

"I want Israel to be a democracy like ___________"

(name of a country)

Hello Nir,

Concerning the question about where I am from, since this is a debate of ideas - not of origins - allow me not to answer the question. It's not for fear of anything, but I think that where we come from is not relevant to what we are discussing.

If you google "gottfried stutz", by the way, you will find, along a small number of refernces to me, quite a few quirky links to diverse issues and people.

As for your "fill-in-the-blank" sentence "I want Israel to be a democracy like ___________", it is not up to me to fill it. It is up to Israelis to be more demanding towards their country. And their country may need to become a democracy not necessarily like another country.

After all, who am I to want Israel to do anything? My alternative statement would be: "I would like to see Israelis, as well as everyone else in the Middle East, live in peace." I am convinced that this would not happen as long as Israel flaunts the rights of other people and breaches International Law.

GottfriedStutz,

Well, I hope that understood that the reason that I asked your nationality and the “fill the blank” sentence was to show you that you are asking think that no country does before.

So you ask for things that even your country (?) don’t do..so , allow me to hesitate in your motivation and your understanding in the situation in my country and around my country.


It is easy to demand all this nice things , much harder to do it with citizen that want to change the gazelle of the country from Jewish country (and yes !!, it is Jewish country before anything else)to Arabs/Jewish country.

btw ,The areas that you called “occupied” , occupied from the Arabs after they started the war(1947,1973)Or after they irritate Israel and made preparation to start a war like in 1967.

why should Israel give that area back? To let them try again ?

No way.

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